fixed or adjustable sights?

I overheard someone at the range today say that he preferred fixed sights over adjustable ones for the simple reason, and this is a direct quote, "Adjustable sights just reinforce bad habits."

Does this guy have a point or is he full of hot air? I never really gave it much thought until today and thought maybe he had a point. After all, if you're shooting to the left, most people don't try to figure out why. They just whip out the small screwdriver and ratchet the sight until they hit what they're aiming at.

A fixed sight, on the other hand, can only shoot straight barring some grotesque malfunction at the factory.

So which one is it - fixed or adjustable? And no, I'm not talking about mortgages, either!

Fixed will only hit dead on with a load calibrated to do so and sights can be slighty misaligned left or right. Easy to fix with adjustables and to tailor sights to different loads for different puposes. But for defense with one pet load that hits point of aim, you have sights that will stay put with fixed sights, no adjsutments to move or springs to fail. or screws that fall out.

Hot air as far as the expert's opinion I say. Each have valid reasons for being. I personally don;t want to have to remember to aim an inch left and three inches high to hit where I want. Either load or sights have to give.

i think that guy's argument of reinforcing bad habits is a bad one. the exact same argument cane be made for fixed sights too. just nstead of adjusting the sights to compensate for bad habits, people will remember to aim "off-line" w/ the sights to compensate.

personally, i like the option of adjustable sights.

as mentioned before, not all loads shoot exactly the same, especially at longer distances. also as mentioned before, i'd rather just adjust sights then aim normally than remmeber to aim up and to left for some rounds and a bit low to the right for others.

and hey...just because it's adjustable doesn't mean you MUST adjust it. how about the innovative idea of simply leaving it alone and learning good habits or fixing bad ones? good thing is that it works for both adjustable AND fixed sights!

I cant see any valid reason for his comment. Thats like sayin I have to aim right and high to hit my target, it must be me. makes no sense.

I can see his point.
Ok, here's how it is.

If you're aiming at a target, and like Joe says you "have to aim an inch up and 3 inches to the right" to put your round where you want, you're doing something wrong.
your stance could be wrong, you're jerking or pulling wrong,you're "reaching" for the target and your shoulders are too far forward, there is something physically wrong with the way you're shooting a pistol.
chances are that it could be that particular caliber or type of pistol.
Every person has a "natural" point of aim. this comes from how far apart you spread your feet to shoot, how far in front of the other foot you place one, if you lean in or lean out or stand straight.
you may be anticipating the shot, etc. there are quite a few different things that affect a shooters' aim!

Adjustable shots are ok, but they'll never be good for a pistol made for combat. Adjustable sights lose their zero from being knocked around.
and they reinforce bad habits.

here's a quick proof for you.
Next time you go to the range, get into your firing stance. aim at your target and then close your eyes. count to 15. open them.
is your pistol still on target? if it's not within an inch or so then you are not in the correct stance.

Keep in mind that pistols are one of the hardest disciplines to learn correctly. For some, this takes "too much time" when you're on the range and are going to have fun and shoot. Try it at home! (make sure your weapon is unloaded first, please!! AND INSPECT THE BREECH to make sure it's unloaded!) and aim at a point on the wall.
Natural point of aim comes from quite a few different things and getting it right will allow you to learn your body and get your rounds on target!

I see your point Tower, I wasn't thinking about the beginner. I don't buy the point about all the things you do wrong being the fault of the sites, whether fixed or adjustable. Of course there are variables like grip and stance. I'm not sure thats what Dan meant from what the other guy said. Id like to hear more from Dan.

2HOW wrote:I see your point Tower, I wasn't thinking about the beginner. I don't buy the point about all the things you do wrong being the fault of the sites, whether fixed or adjustable. Of course there are variables like grip and stance. I'm not sure thats what Dan meant from what the other guy said. Id like to hear more from Dan.

If understood right, that was exactly what the guy was warning against, constant change of sights cause of the shooter not doing his/her part. like I said though, I just overheard....

brickmanDan wrote:

2HOW wrote:I see your point Tower, I wasn't thinking about the beginner. I don't buy the point about all the things you do wrong being the fault of the sites, whether fixed or adjustable. Of course there are variables like grip and stance. I'm not sure thats what Dan meant from what the other guy said. Id like to hear more from Dan.

If understood right, that was exactly what the guy was warning against, constant change of sights cause of the shooter not doing his/her part. like I said though, I just overheard....

Exactly! The ability to change the sights would not lead to changing the shooters habits, but just adjusting the sights. That would promote bad habits that the shooter has no reason to unlearn because they can simply change the sights.

I end up teaching quite a bit, that's how I can see the sense in what that fella said. For folks who learned the right way and have excellent form (Yeah Jan, I was watching you shoot pistol) adjustable sights are simply a way to move groups around on the target, not tighten those groups or improve your skills. For a pupil or a combat soldier, adjustable sights on a pistol are an abomination! (paraphrased from the gospel according to JMB)
The gospel according to John (Moses) Browning

Joe B, if you care to improve your shooting skills to the point where you won't have to use those adjustable sights, then I can offer you some light reading.

Army marksmanship guide

Point taken Tower, But if you put a group in a good cluster in a place you are not aimimg you have to adjust the gun , not the shooter. Thats all Im saying.
And let me be clear about what Im saying. I buy a fixed site pistol ( which is hard to do these days) the rear site is always adjustable . And I shoot a 2 inch group at 50 ft. but its high right. Its not me! its the pistol. So I need to adjust the sites or put adjustables on.

Yep..but how many bad habits do you have after 20+ years of shooting pistol?

I like fixed sights on a carry pistol as it is expected to be thirty feet or less range. A target pistol should have adjust sights.

Where are the point and shoot guys offering there thoughts???

Peeling the Onion?

I think it matters how well you shoot, your expereince/training, the distance, is it a target or threat, night or day, prepared or surprise, on the offense or on the deffense? So many thoughts come to mind that are not with you on the range. If I had a the right answer for everone That would be great but I don't. I can say when I go the the range it isn't so much about the perfect holes in the paper it's about the what if. What if I have to do this for real, I know I can do it right.

WDBradley wrote:I like fixed sights on a carry pistol as it is expected to be thirty feet or less range. A target pistol should have adjust sights.

Where are the point and shoot guys offering there thoughts???

Peeling the Onion?

I think it matters how well you shoot, your expereince/training, the distance, is it a target or threat, night or day, prepared or surprise, on the offense or on the deffense? So many thoughts come to mind that are not with you on the range. If I had a the right answer for everone That would be great but I don't. I can say when I go the the range it isn't so much about the perfect holes in the paper it's about the what if. What if I have to do this for real, I know I can do it right.

wow...excellent point!

towerclimber wrote:Yep..but how many bad habits do you have after 20+ years of shooting pistol?

I dont believe I have any Elliot. But I could be wrong , I thought I was wrong once, but I was just mistaken.

WDBradley wrote:I like fixed sights on a carry pistol as it is expected to be thirty feet or less range. A target pistol should have adjust sights.

Where are the point and shoot guys offering there thoughts???

Peeling the Onion?

I think it matters how well you shoot, your expereince/training, the distance, is it a target or threat, night or day, prepared or surprise, on the offense or on the deffense? So many thoughts come to mind that are not with you on the range. If I had a the right answer for everone That would be great but I don't. I can say when I go the the range it isn't so much about the perfect holes in the paper it's about the what if. What if I have to do this for real, I know I can do it right.

Thats a great point, as far as point shooting its a flash site picture at best with front site only. You are correct in as you dont need adjustables in a carry gun. They do however give you a good reference point when punching paper and verifying that your fundamentals are solid. If the sites are aligned properly.

What do bad habits matter if you hit what you shoot at? I hunt squirrels out to 25 yards with pistols. I'll keep my bad habits.