Health care...do we even have a leg to stand on?

Allow me to play devils advocate for a bit:

Much of the opposition to Obamacare comes from the folks who want to protect America from socialized medicine. Unfortunately, they appear to be fighting a battle that was lost decades ago.

America has socialized medicine. Medicare and Medicaid are socialized medicine, plain and simple. We have, in our generosity (or foolishness, whichever you prefer), created a system where the elderly, the extremely poor, an the disabled receive free or heavily subsidized medical care, while the rest pay full price.

We've created, in essence, a separate class of citizen with special "rights" to go along with it. If you are over the age of 65, or otherwise meet the requirements, you have the "right" to low cost medical treatment, subsidized by the same taxpayers who are being crippled by insurance costs.

I cannot find, nor have I heard, any interpretation of the Constitution which would allow such a thing.


Medicare ain't going away. My question is: Does our Constitution allow for the system we have in place now?

If not, what are the alternatives?

My question is: Does our Constitution allow for the system we have in place now?

I don't believe that anyone involved in our current system gives a tinker's damn about what The Constitution of the United States says or what it allows them to do. They are doing as they please regardless of what The Constitution allows and will continue until they are forced to stop.

they dont really care what the constitution really allows or not. all that matters to them is that their interpretation of it allows them to do whatever they want, including very unconstitutional things...restriction of free speech, no separation of church & state, infringement of gun rights, illegal search & seizure, illegally obtaining evidence and using illegally obtained evidence, restricting the right to peacefully assemble, double jeopardy/tried for same crime more than once, non-speedy trials & far from impartial juries...just to name a few.

I'm curious, do you have health care now? if you do this will not affect you so why worry about it. If you don't this is about subsidizing at government expense those who can't afford it now.

Do you consider medicare or social security unconstitutional? Keep an open mind, the only people that should be unhappy with an option is healthcare insurers and drug companies. I have Kaiser for my wife and I at a cost of $1100 a month, we are in our early 50's and self employed. I almost couldn't get healthcare because of surgeries I had about 8 years ago. My mother has medicare and she is getting better care than she had for the 15 years prior to that. I would jump on an under medicare age option in a heartbeat, if it becomes reality I would have both my wife and I signed up the first month. We are getting killed with copays on tests and consultations on top of the $1200 a month. I need surgeries that have $2500 copays I can't afford so they won't be scheduled until I can.

Perhaps I could make the suggestion that you open up your information resources beyond the GOP and drug industry lines. As a government and people we are paying far too much to the industry for what we get as a country. Something is wrong with the profit and administration costs of this industry and it is up to us to understand what part needs to be fixed.

The best healthcare I ever had in my life was in the military, I'd trust to that level of care again. The government has done a pretty good job with medicare but the costs could be brought into even better line with better oversight of the fraud and overcharging. I mean this in the best way, but it's easy to fear changes that you hear are pretty horrendous in concept, but who are you hearing about how bad they are? Learn more about what they are about and you just might see that you are being fed faulty information. Open mindedly looking at realities doesn't hurt a thing if you were right all along and stand by your original opinion.

Fact, the same basic group of people opposing health reform fought medicare tooth and nail. Get sick in any one of a number of other countries and need days worth of hospitalization and it will cost you a few hundred dollars, chances are you'll be very impressed with the level of comprehensive care. Why can't we make this happen in the US? You personally pay a certain level of taxes that is basically stable. Healthcare for everyone is basically reallocating the taxes that already exist. I'd rather have my tax dollars paying for better healthcare for the american people and reign in the billions of dollars being fraudulently ripped off by defense contractors to pay for it. Overseeing wasteful spending would double available money for other things without hurting the programs that are cracked down on at all. Don't gripe about government, learn to make it better.

Part of the hidden benefit of healthcare reform is that wasteful and excessive costs that have been run out of control and perspective will be brought into correct pricing. There is so much money to be saved by controlling costs of care and procedures that it pays for a huge part of what gets incurred by covering more people.

Just trying to throw a reasonable voice out there. Our healthcare system is all wrong, it needs to be fixed. It doesn't help to simply oppose all the things the healthcare industry would love to see defeated as well, you need to have an idea of what the problems are and how we fix them. Warnings about destroying the healthcare industry and costs going through the roof just aren't going to happen, who's opinion do you think those fears come from?

Well, if you havent, or do not, you better go and sign up with the VA now. AFAIK, they are about a year behind getting new non service connected applicants into the system.

Service connected guys do not wait that long I do not think, at least not in the Reno VA. And the method in which ratings are applied, simply boggles the imagination. It seems that no logic is at play, what so ever.

And while not totally uniformly great across the country, since humans do run their administration, and some administrators are better than others, I would hate to see the whole country, with millions and millions under that same or similar system.

Obama care is already starting to take effect and they haven't even voted on it yet. The wife and i both got notices from our provider yesterday that they were doubling our premiums. Looks like the companys are going to get their raises in before the feds put a lock on it... Got yours yet? hold on they are in the mail...